jonbear

If you managed to move the live rock in water then you proabably never really had a cycle, as the bacteria was preserved with very little die-off. What do you have in the way of clean-up crew? All tanks needs some kind of grazers to keep nuisance algae in check. Typically various snails and hermit crabs.

Also, you need a way to remove excess nitrate and phosphate from the system. Lots of ways to do that.
-Refugium with macro algae, havesting the macro algae removes the nutrients.
-vodka dosing
-bio pellets
-Algae scrubber (my personal choice)
-frequent large water changes

Also check your Calcium, Alkalinity and magnesium levels. Even without detectable nitrate or phosphate I've found that if any of those get out of line some kind of algae will move in.

Phil

In my first attempt at a reef (only went for 3 months before a complete tear down and reconstruction...see my blog) I had horrible issues with green hair algae, and very little of the brown diatoms. I used tap water and that is what caused the problem...my tap water tests out with 10ppm nitrate, 2.0ppm phosphate!, and .25 ammonia/nitrites. The RO/DI unit you just purchased is your best investment yet, and will really help with the phosphates, nitrates, and silicates in the water. Diatom algae seems to "thrive" in an environment with high silicate levels. I would advise you to shorten your photo period by a total of 20% little bits at a time and do 10-15% water changes twice a week, hopefully this will rid your system of your tap water for the most part. I also highly recommend in addition to what Phil said to see about purchasing a GFO (phosban) reactor. This will help get any of the phosphates that your rock and sand absorbed from the tap water and then leached into the RO/DI water out of your system. They aren't that expensive ($60) to get started, I personally recommend the reactor from Bulk Reef Supply as I have heard amazing things about these reactors and they are built to last, and a good bang for your buck, $40 vs $50. Another thing to look into is removing any sponges/floss/etc. that can get clogged with detritus and cause high nitrate levels, (look at your wet dry filter, do you use bio balls?). Finally I am wondering how long that tank had been up and running before you moved it and what your test results are?

phil... great advice. i do have 6 hermit crabs nibbling away one turbo snail(had 4 three are dead) added 4 astri (cone shaped) snails they are hard at work and 2 bristle stars who i rarely see other than a random arm sticking out...I am actively doing the water changes. did 30 gallons tuesday will do another Friday... and using the ro/di for topping about 1 gallon a day. I keep the top open and have pretty active water movement. in haven't measured alkalinity or magnesium levels.. my calcium has stayed above 440 sometimes at 500 so think it is good. I was feeding live pryoto-plankton that set off the hair algae... it seems to be reducing with the water changes and i harvested some out of the tank. I have read about vodka dosing and think a little for the tank and a little for me may help through the stress ..LOL but vodka seemed like a quicker fix along with water changes. As far as grazers i had a blue tang and a yellow tank specifically for grazing and lost them both in a week... learning lots the hard way... didnt want to add anything more till this is resolved... i did think about a couple damsels for the algae..

Myhahockeykid... scary to think i will have to take it apart ... the 2.0 phosphate is what i got out of my water so i am going down that path... the existing tank was in operation for 4 years but was a saltwater fish tank for not reef.... i did not get to see the tank in action it was being disassembled when i arrived. i thought keeping the water was a good idea ... guess that was wrong...I do have bio balls which i did not clean due to wanting the live bacteria on them to keep the tank going...will look into the reactor .. that is a new device to me...

Hey Jonnear, check out this reactor: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.co...m?pcatid=20173 - seems like a resonable system. If you search on this site they have people who DIY'd one similar. I made one for my tank; probably cost 25.00. pump was the most expensive thing. But, it was super easy to make. ;-)

My advice is this. Stop dosing all those extra elements. Stop dosing the phyto and oyster eggs. Do a whole lot of large water changes. You won't shock the system. And by large I mean 50% or more with RO/DI water if you can manage once a week for a month. Make sure the water you're using is mixed to the same temp and Ph before you put it in the tank. The livestock you have now does not need doses of phyto or oyster eggs yet. And you adding that in is just harming your water quality more than anything right now. You will solve all your problems by KISS...keeping it simple stupid. Just do water changes... new fresh water will have all those minerals you're dosing and it will help cut down on your nitrates and phosphates. Stop dosing the excess phyto and food because this is just adding to your NO3 and PO4 problems. Later on, these are great things to add to an established reef, not one so lightly stocked and young.

You can run your tank happily with just water changes and feeding cyclops, maybe some PE mysis every few days. Do not get in over your head with too much stuff going in the tank. Oh and once your water params get under control, get 1 snail per gallon in your tank. You'll never have an algae problem. And get rid of the hermits. They don't do much good and will eventually eat all your snails. Even the reef safe ones.

jon - Just to clear up a couple of thing that I think I may have not been clear on, I am not at all suggesting that you do what I did and tear down your tank, my teardown was because the entire system was just subpar to what is neccessary for keeping a reef tank, it even lacked a sump. I would at least shake your bioballs out in clean saltwater once a week if not more often just to get the detritus out of them. The buildup of detritus in/around the bio-balls is why they get such a bad rap, as well as because your live rock provides more that enough biological filtration. Maybe some pictures of your setup and the sump/wetdry area could be helpful. Also, what skimmer do you have, if it is a skimmer that isn't enough for your tank it won't remove all the NO3 and PO4 causing substances (poop/food/detritus/etc). Keeping the water was a good idea, and what Jessy suggested is also what I would suggest, large and frequent water changes to replace the "tap" saltwater with RODI saltwater. And feeding both the corals and fish less would really help out. None of those corals need to filter feed really, as long as you keep the anemone fed well you are fine. Also, out of personal experience I would NOT add damsels into your tank as they dont really like eating algae, they will eat it if you dont feed them anything else, but they could also eat corals or attempt to eat the other fish/critters in the tank. Sorry for going on and on, but as a person who struggled and stressed over this problem and eventually tore down my setup because of it I feel like I really should help you out. I would also hold off on the vodka dosing until you try a GFO reactor or some other solution, your reef should probably be a bit more established before you start vodka dosing. Also for vodka dosing you need a very powerful skimmer to get all the bacteria and junk out of your tank.

Hope this all helps and I'm not just rambling on and on and confusing you,

Max

I am buying into the Kiss principal. did another 30+gallon water change. Cleaned all the foam filters and fabric in the wet dry...I do this often anyway. Todays test results are as follows. Nitrate above 80 color close to the 160 mark. Calcium at 400 low for this tank. ammonia at near zero maybe .25 colors are close. Phosphate still at 2 which is frustrating . i am 80 gallons of water change and another 10 of Topping water out of the RODI system. Ph seems to have gone down a bit to 8.0 water is clear and salinity is a bit higher at 1,023 usually 1.021. I am using instant Ocean Reef Crystals in the salt mix so stopped with the dosing elements. matching salinty and temperature before putting in tank. i removed the anemone who has been moving around the tank and last few days been upside down. he may have been "melting" and causing water problems not sure. Rest of animals seen healthy my brown sun polyps are spreading and algae seems to be slowing. Plan on adding 10 more snails today. 1 per gallon seems like alot of snails this will make me 15 in a 125 gallon tank. Surprised that hermit crabs (told reef safe ones) are bad things in the cleaner crew. anyone else feel that way?

I did do a 6 drop dose of vodka hoping to accelerate the nitrate removal. May have been to much as clouded the tank last night but clear now. i am making the saltwater in 30 gallon batches and leaving over night. adding a power head and a pump in the vessel as well as a heater.

My question today is can the life rock be saturated with nitrates such that they are sort of producing the nitrates? Considering removing SOME of the rock and doing scrubs on them . All were scrubbed before the set up. the most consistent problem has been the phosphates. after 90 gallons of RODI should i be seeing some effect after a week?

thanks for all the comments. I am being brutally honest in my notes hoping to fix this and start doing fun stuff....

I agree with Jessy 1000% percent. Tanks are like a fine wine, they take time to mature. The reef safe hermits are cool but I don't keep too many. Maybe like 5-10 in my 210. Now I have boatload of snails. Almost every type that are safe and actually work for my team. My last order of snails was 300-400. Let's set back from the tank and enjoy it for a moment. I think us reefers get caught up in "this looks wrong let me try this". I'll admit, I was the same way in the beginning. Ever since I took the hands off approach, my tank is doing sooooo much better. If it looks wrong, I try to make sure it wrong, then I come up with a plan. Once with my plan, I talk to anyone who will listen for feedback. Normally by the time I am done, what looked wrong is now fixed by itself. Moral of my story, one change at a time and truely see what your tank gains from it. That way you know and won't just be guessing. So slow down, relax, and enjoy a piece of the ocean!!!!!

The top off water won't do anything to dilute the Nitrates or Phosphates, it's just replacing water that evaportated. Unfortunately the nitrate and phosphate don't evaporate too.

For a reef tank, a salinity (specific gravity) of 1.025 to 1.026 is more the norm. And your calcium and alkalinity levels will increase as you increase your salinity, since both are in the salt mix.

Keep up the water changes, that's your fastest short term solution. But long term you'll still need some method of nutrient export. I struggled for 5 years with algae problems and never came close to eliminating them till I added and algae scrubber. But that's certainly not the only method.