look like baby Cerith Snails to me, i have seen those in my tank and have never had a problem with them
Good to hear. That's why I use it and now sell it.
Originally Posted by melev If invertebrates are okay, it isn't metal toxicity (like copper). Snails slowing down and dying can be higher Magnesium, but it could be poisoned by dinoflagellates and possibly cyano. I do sell RedCyano Rx from my site. I'll PM you a URL. The Red Cyano Rx really did the trick. It cleaned it up great! Even though I'm still planning to take out the sand bed in a couple of weeks I wanted to see how this stuff worked. I'm impressed with the results. Thanks!
It probably wicked out of your dry rock. I wouldn't expect that number to stay there unless your salt mix is providing it. I'm not sure about the double calcium measurements they list. But Seachem sells two kinds of Calcium additive, one full of ions and one that is more normal. You can talk to them about that at MACNA.
If the tank is 10 years old and it runs a DSB I also think it is Old Tank Syndrome. Most DSBs don't last ten years. It could be hydrogen sulfide from the sand bed but after that many years, DSBs just stop working from clogging. Thats just my opinion.
If invertebrates are okay, it isn't metal toxicity (like copper). Snails slowing down and dying can be higher Magnesium, but it could be poisoned by dinoflagellates and possibly cyano. I do sell RedCyano Rx from my site. I'll PM you a URL.
Originally Posted by melev Does your tank have any obvious Cyano bacteria? I had some LPS look miserable and when I treated to kill Cyano, the LPS rebounded. Carbon - rinse it really well to remove the fines. When the water runs clear, it's safe to use. I run fresh carbon weekly, and my fish are healthy. The carbon dust (fines) are what purportedly cause HLLE. Sounds like my Magnesium is really high. Have someone else measure the Mg to verify your numbers. Or you have trace metals in the tank perhaps.... or some vile pocket of the sandbed has become partially exposed perhaps. Do you have any ornamental shrimp in the tank, and how are they doing? Yeah the tank is loaded with Cyano right now. What to you recommend to treat it? I got a 2nd test kit from Elos and it shows around 1300 like the Red Sea test. I actually got a test kit from AWT for my birthday. http://www.aquariumwatertesting.com/ I'm sending that off tomorrow to see what there results are. I have several shrimp - 1 cleaner and about 3 peppermint and they seem fine. Hermit crabs are doing okay. The red leg ones are fine but I've seen a few of scarlets dying off.
Does your tank have any obvious Cyano bacteria? I had some LPS look miserable and when I treated to kill Cyano, the LPS rebounded. Carbon - rinse it really well to remove the fines. When the water runs clear, it's safe to use. I run fresh carbon weekly, and my fish are healthy. The carbon dust (fines) are what purportedly cause HLLE. Sounds like my Magnesium is really high. Have someone else measure the Mg to verify your numbers. Or you have trace metals in the tank perhaps.... or some vile pocket of the sandbed has become partially exposed perhaps. Do you have any ornamental shrimp in the tank, and how are they doing?
Originally Posted by Paul B Works for me. Dose this tank have a DSB? I am just curious. Yes it has a DSB and a plenum.
Originally Posted by melev Overall, it doesn't look that bad. What you called Torch coral declining looks like Candy Cane coral, which has lost many of its heads. Where are you buying your snails, and how are you acclimating them? if you are ordering them in bulk from Key's Critters for example, they dry ship them and acclimation is totally different from what we would do if we bought them at the LFS. It looks like you need a bunch of snails to help get that algae under control. How often do you change the carbon? 1/2 cup per 50g weekly? That's a great skimmer and it's doing its job. The Caulerpa is pretty thin, not much there to help remove nutrients. By comparison, my refugium is 80% full as I just gave away quite a bit to a new sump setup that needed to get the refugium zone going. You're right on the candy cane coral. I always call it torch but it's the same thing: Caulastrea furcata. the heads are falling off. Several of the one's left are lose now and blowing in the breeze. Is that a sign of anything? LPS coming detached? On the snails - I tried both the bulk and LFS methods. On the dry ship it's a dump right in and I use drip acclimation for the ones from the LFS. The snails are not dying right away. They start out really active for a week or two and then all of a sudden they stop moving I pull them out and they are smelly mess. Since they are good for a couple weeks I wouldn't think they should be affected by the acclimation process. (and I've done the same thing many times before over the years and snails were fine). On the carbon - I've been using it very sparingly due to fear of lateral line erosion on the tangs. Right now I have none running. Has anyone else see lateral line erosion based on carbon usage? The Caulerpa is thin because I just pruned a bunch back. I might have removed a little too much. I was completely full.
Now, we just need to help encourage him, get him back into good husbandry practices, get him to look into trace elements if he isn't already, and probably get him to look at adding some bacteria to re-establish the biodiversity of his tank. Works for me. Dose this tank have a DSB? I am just curious.
Overall, it doesn't look that bad. What you called Torch coral declining looks like Candy Cane coral, which has lost many of its heads. Where are you buying your snails, and how are you acclimating them? if you are ordering them in bulk from Key's Critters for example, they dry ship them and acclimation is totally different from what we would do if we bought them at the LFS. It looks like you need a bunch of snails to help get that algae under control. How often do you change the carbon? 1/2 cup per 50g weekly? That's a great skimmer and it's doing its job. The Caulerpa is pretty thin, not much there to help remove nutrients. By comparison, my refugium is 80% full as I just gave away quite a bit to a new sump setup that needed to get the refugium zone going.
Originally Posted by blakew Hi Paul, not to pick a fight, again, but I think this article from Advanced Aquarist: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/5/aafeature2 would seem to indicate that many of the things going on in the op's tank and the fact that the tank is 10 years old could rightfully be called "Old Tank Syndrome"...I know you don't believe in Old Tank Syndrome and from the linked article, I must say, many of the things attributed to Old Tank Syndrome and the causes given in the article appear to be more about husbandry than the tank being old, but the term "Old Tank Syndrome" seems to be what a decline in the health of an older tank is being called. From the first couple of lines in the article: "Now that a tank no longer needs to be broken down and tanks are being maintained for long periods of time a new "syndrome" is starting to show itself. For lack of a better term the situation is being called the "Old Tank Syndrome." ..."The best way to describe this syndrome is simply that the tank is failing to thrive."...."This situation usually occurs after a tank has been set up for five years or longer,"..."The syndrome is usually the result of a number of factors working together to cause the demise of the tank," In the op's case, he's got declining corals, increasing algae, dying livestock and his tank is 10 years old. Seems to fit the description of "Old Tank Syndrome". Now, we just need to help encourage him, get him back into good husbandry practices, get him to look into trace elements if he isn't already, and probably get him to look at adding some bacteria to re-establish the biodiversity of his tank. Just My Humble Opinion, based on the information in the linked article. Blakew Thanks Blakew, Having this tank for 10 years and in the hobby for 20+ years I would say that I have a fair amount of experience. I think the thing that led to this was that a year ago things were going so well I became a little lazy. Even though I didn't keep up the good maintenance schedule the corals and fish were thriving. I had SPS literally growing out the water. So I started to think at least subconsciously that the system was bullet proof. The problem is that once it started to decline I couldn't stop it. Like a fighter jet in a flat spin I seem to be helpless in stopping the decline. So that's why I'm going to bail out and start again. The biggest mystery to me is those darn snails. I can understand most everything else but that. I would think some type of metal like Cu- but I've run carbon without any affect. As far as trace elements go - I think a good salt mix and water changes are the ticket there after all they are trace elements. And for bacteria dosing - I've used Biodigest from time to time. Are you suggesting something else or do you have a recommendation there? Thanks for the support. Greg
Hi Paul, not to pick a fight, again, but I think this article from Advanced Aquarist: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/5/aafeature2 would seem to indicate that many of the things going on in the op's tank and the fact that the tank is 10 years old could rightfully be called "Old Tank Syndrome"...I know you don't believe in Old Tank Syndrome and from the linked article, I must say, many of the things attributed to Old Tank Syndrome and the causes given in the article appear to be more about husbandry than the tank being old, but the term "Old Tank Syndrome" seems to be what a decline in the health of an older tank is being called. From the first couple of lines in the article: "Now that a tank no longer needs to be broken down and tanks are being maintained for long periods of time a new "syndrome" is starting to show itself. For lack of a better term the situation is being called the "Old Tank Syndrome." ..."The best way to describe this syndrome is simply that the tank is failing to thrive."...."This situation usually occurs after a tank has been set up for five years or longer,"..."The syndrome is usually the result of a number of factors working together to cause the demise of the tank," In the op's case, he's got declining corals, increasing algae, dying livestock and his tank is 10 years old. Seems to fit the description of "Old Tank Syndrome". Now, we just need to help encourage him, get him back into good husbandry practices, get him to look into trace elements if he isn't already, and probably get him to look at adding some bacteria to re-establish the biodiversity of his tank. Just My Humble Opinion, based on the information in the linked article. Blakew
What makes you think this is from Old Tank Syndrome?
I generally like to scrape the glass and put force the snails to work on the rocks. Did you say whether or not you were running carbon?
Do some research. I read years ago that you are supposed to draw a little water out of there from time to time, IIRC. Dying snails add PO4 to the water. In spades. Here's the article about stray electricity testing: http://www.reefaddicts.com/content.p...ay-Electricity I've always dosed my tank at night, and let the skimmer export it overnight. The next day the water is clear, the livestock is happy, and the test measures 0 ppm again.
I've never actually pulled any water from under the plenum for the life of the tank. Didn't think you were supposed to disturb the area. Before I tear it out I'll pull some out and do some tests.
Thanks Marc, I've not been changing the water that often in the barrel. I will start now. The water in there is still at 0.2. When I dosed the Phosphate Rx I didn't remove the flocculant. When I dose the tank I would turn off the main pump - dose in the skimmer chamber of the sump and use a cartridge filter to circulate the water. But for the cooking barrel I didn't bother. I'm going to change out to GFO moving forward for the cooking rocks. As for the dying snail yes they smelled bad. I checked the Mg tonight and it is 1320 so seems fine. How would I check for stray electricity BTW?
When you have higher PO4 levels in your tank, it does get into the sandbed and rocks. My 280g was loaded with PO4 back in 2004-2005, measuring 3.0 ppm. I used a lot of GFO products with less than stellar results. Phosbuster Pro and Phosphate Rx both work great though. Each time you treat the tank you knock it down, and the rock leaches out more. Eventually the rock will empty out, especially if you are "cooking" it. To cook it properly, you've got to shake the rock strongly once a week, and move it to a new barrel of saltwater, tossing out the old water and detritus. Skimming can help, but I've never bothered. The rock you are cooking now, and using Phosphate Rx.... how are you exporting the flocculant? Skimmer? Filter sock? Nothing? It could be possible that the plenum is wiped out or damaged. Do you still remove some fluid from that zone from time to time? The dying snails will add PO4; did you smell them as you pulled them out? Check for stray electricity. Also if your Mg is too high, snails don't do well.
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