glad you got it under control ! it seems it wasn't marine velvet after all but this article will be a great reference
Thanks, I will be sure to include all your findings on this.
Hi DJ. I don't mind if you use the photos... but I would mention in your article that this might not be marine velvet since medication for internal parasites is what appears to be resolving this issue, there were no respiratory problems, gills were not inflamed, there was the presence of white stringy feces (first observed on day 2), and this animal was quarantined and treated for external parasites nearly a year prior to these symptoms (as are all other fishes in the same tank). I believe there are more indicators for internal parasite than external. I hope you plan to share your article here as well, I would like to learn more about marine velvet, as well as other fish diseases.
Im glad you got it under control. just fyi marine velvet does not get fluffy apperance of the fw type. I am doing a article for a club site do you mind if I use your photos jlemione2
Day 5 update... The tang is still improving! Today was the third day of PraziPro soaked food. Yesterday, there were some brown spots between the eyes, which appear to be gone today. The white splotches on the fins are improved as well. I can barely see any white on one fin, and the other (which was worse) is much less noticeable, but I still can see a couple white splotches (as seen in the picture below). Today's photo... he even looks to be smiling again! :lol:
Thanks for the reply joeogio and DJ. Based on my looking around, I just do see how it can be marine velvet (amyloodinium). The parasites that make up this disease are very fine and packed together to appear like a soft velvety coating (thus the name). In addition, a key symptom of velvet are respiratory problems. My tang has not experienced any breathing issues or lethargy. However, I do believe a parasite to be at work here. I have a book titled "Diseases in Marine Aquarium Fish" by Gerald Bassleer. It describes internal parasites known as encapsulated digenetic trematodes or metaceraria that meet the general description I'm experiencing here. The book describes black spots on the skin and muscular tissue, and white spots on the fins (I have both). The photos in the book are terrible, but it's the closest match I could find for the symptoms. It also makes sense because my own quarantine procedures don't treat for internal parasites. Doing some more digging around, it is common for parasitic infections to cause this type of marking, as it is a skin reaction to the immune system trying to block the parasites. I'm confident enough in my QT procedures that I don't have an external parasite. Also, on day 3 of this issue, this tang and a lyretail anthias were having white stringy poo... which is a key indicator of an internal parasite. Since I could not immediately get a fish trap (and more than one fish appears exposed), I tried soaking some mysis and brine with PraziPro. Doing some quick searches showed that quite a few folks had trouble with this method (dead fish), but I'm convinced they were overdosing the PraziPro like this, since they provided no measurements. I did not want to simply dose it to the water as I'm not keen on running without carbon or a skimmer for several days. Doing my own research, I was able to come up with a dosage of 0.07ml per 1 gram of food. It turns out that old Salifert calcium test kits have a perfect syringe for that type of measurement. I thawed out two cubes of frozen food, which is approximately 6.5 grams. With the thawed and rinsed food in a little cup, I squirted in ~0.45 ml of PraziPro, mixed it up good, and let it soak for 15 minutes. After that, I fed it to the tank with a turkey baster like I normally do. On this initial batch, the fish seemed to eat a little slower than they normally do... I figured the PraziPro may not have tasted good soaked into their food. I put in a couple drops of garlic extract to the food container. From there, they attacked the food more vigorously. The next day (today) On Day 4, here is what my tang looked like: Big improvement! On Day 2 some white splotches also appeared on the pectoral fins. Those are still there today, but they are either equal to or not as bad as yesterday. Since these showed up day 2, it's possible they will go away later than the brown splotches will. This is the best picture I could get of the fin splotches, which are about 3mm in size.: Given the size and shape of these, I'm about 90% sure it is not crypto. I'm sticking with the encapsulated trematodes or metaceraria theory. I'll continue dosing PraziPro soaked food for the week to see how things go. I mentioned before all of my fish go through quarantine. I also treat the fish for external parasites regardless of whether they show symptoms or not. At one point, I used to dose PraziPro to the water (in QT) for internal parasites as well, but I did not like running without a skimmer on a little system that did not have any biological filtration. I also noticed the fish would often not eat at all, or at most very little. So I stopped using PraziPro. I think now that I may have a good method to give it to the fish orally, I will use this dosing method in my QT protocols as well.
I would guess black spot(velvet) not real common in sw. It is similar to clown fish disease, you can treat it with a fresh water dip with m blue added to the water. You can tell it been rubbing in the zoom shot which screams parasite . I think thats what joe is posting but my latin to english is crusty
after being quite puzzled and a little research i think its Amyloodinium, i would quarantine him and treat the fish before it gets worse
Not looking any better today, but I was able to snap some better photos. Zoomed in a little:
yeah im not sure looks like some kind of fungus or parasite to me, you should post this pic on reef central and see what they have to allow. thats a very pretty fish you have btw
I don't know. I'm sorry.
You can probably ask ReefCleaners if they've seen them before and provide some insight. It looks all but certain to be a sea cucumber to me, but IDing by photo is not that reliable. I usually see sea cucumbers slowly move one tentacle into their mouth, take it out, and do the exact same thing with the adjacent one. Never heard of them walking on their oral tentacles, but I am not a sea cucumber expert. I've never heard of medusa worms refer to any kind of sea cucumber, but then again common names are not very reliable either. I've only heard of medusa worms refer to segmented worms from the Family Cirratulidae (relatives of the bristle, featherduster and tube worms) :P They're really fascinating and there are some really beautiful sea cucumbers, but I've read that they're generally not aquarium friendly animals so be careful.
Good tip gerbilbox. Well, I have been unable to get any better pictures, none are on the glass on the front pane today... my refuge is only viewable from the front. However, I have made some more observations. They do move tentacles to their mouths in a seemingly rythmic pattern. While on the glass, they originally appeared to crawl around by those tentacles, but after watching a bit longer they are stuck to the glass with at least a portion of the front end of the body... the tentacles do seem to help with movement. While on the rocks, I saw one that had itself errected up into the water column, looking a bit like a tiny feather duster... so it's lower portion of the body must be grippy as well. I have at least 20 of these, my chaeto is crammed with them... .which is probably the source. I receievd it from reefcleaners.org. I think these are sea cucubmers, particularly the variety known as "medusa worms". Searching for that in Google yields a number of photos and articles with critters that look like this. I'm not sure I can remove them all, and they seem to be multiplying. Most of the articles I read indicated that they are toxic if they die... usually from starvation in reef tanks. Hopefully, they'll start kicking off while they are small, so impact on my tanks are minimal. Thanks for the ID!
Do you know how to use exposure compensation on your camera? It'll either be a button with the +/- symbol, or somewhere in the menu, set it to something negative like -1 or more, and it'll underexpose and get more detail out of this critter under the strong light. I see what looks like a tube near the head. How many of the oral tentacles do they have? I can count 8 in the photo but I'm not sure if there are more that is out of view. If it's a multiple of 5, it's another sign that it's a sea cucumber since starfish and their relatives usually are built with multiples of five.
Thanks for the replies. I said "walk like a starfish" because the oral tentacles movement when "walking" around reminded me of a serpent starfish. The tentacles would reach and pull the rest along. Sometimes the tentacles also overlap each other while "walking". I have not observed them sticking tentacles into their mouth. They only climb the glass in low flow areas, which is mostly everywhere in the refugium. They seem to like it by the surface of the water. Most of the time, I can only see the long bodies, as the tentacle portion is hidden by the frame of the tank. The only one I've seen in the display was crawling along the sandbed close to rocks, there is too much flow for it to get to the glass. The picture above was the biggest one available at the time, and it was difficult getting a macro picture with the stong light behind it. Since they are fairly active, even in the light, I'll try and get a better closeup of the body to see if we can see any of those tiny tubes along the body. The body for the most part seems to just dangle free. Looking at the picture above, the body clearly has nodules, and close to the outside arch on the upper portion, one of those nodules seems to be a little longer, perhaps it is one of those tiny tubes. Thanks! -James
It doesn't look like a tube worm or spaghetti worm. It's not completely clear from the photo but it appears to be lacking any kind of segmentation in its body, which excludes it from all segmented worms (bristle worms, tube worms, spaghetti worms, etc). Plus, the oral tentacles look far too thick and I've never seen them branched like that on a spaghetti worm. Judging by the fleshy-looking branch oral tentacles and the knobby body texture, it looks like a tiny sea cucumber, but I am not completely sure. If they are sea cucumbers you may want to get rid of them 'cause they can be difficult to keep alive, and they release very powerful holotoxins if they are heavily stressed or dying. Like I said, I'm not certain about the identification. It may be difficult but can you get a better photo, especially one of the largest ones? Do they have any tiny "tubes" along the length of their body that they're using to grab onto the glass and move around? In what way do you mean they walk like a starfish? (Starfish and sea cucumbers are relatives). Do they stick their tentacles into their mouths one at a time? You could gentle move one into a low-flow area to get a better idea of how they actually move.
I'm guessing it looks like a spaghetti worm, a harmless detritavore.
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